When and If: By Fall 2030, Captain Seth Salzmann Plans to Sail His John Alden Schooner Around the World
Last Updated on January 28, 2025 by Boatsetter Team
When and If is a 1939 schooner designed by marine architect John Alden and commissioned by World War II General George Patton. When and if Patton returned, he hoped to sail the world with his wife. Unfortunately, he never did, but this sailboat’s story wasn’t over. After several chance encounters with When and If — from Maine harbors to a secluded Caribbean bay — Seth brought her under his care and today runs a program to fulfill her destiny: sailing around the world. In this conversation, we talked about sailing expeditions, the moment he found “When and If,” and his mission to set sail with her in the fall of 2030.
What’s the earliest memory you have of sailing? Did you come from a family of sailors?
SS: My first sailing experience came at age 11 in Burlington, Vermont, on Lake Champlain. I still remember the sail like it was yesterday on my father’s lawyer’s boat. We sailed all afternoon on a perfect summer day. I was at the helm nearly the entire time. I was amazed by how natural it felt. I didn’t sail again until we moved to Key West when I was 13. I quickly found a schooner whose captain and crew loved teaching sailing. Before I turned 14, I had progressed from volunteer to hired deckhand. Both my siblings have since become sailors and made it their career.
I can only begin to imagine the epic seafaring stories you have in your back pocket. What is the most daring sailing expedition to date?
SS: I have sailed a 16-foot Hobie Cat from Key West to Cuba in 2015, captained a 102-foot schooner yacht in a trans-Atlantic race from the Canaries to the Caribbean. I have won my class in the 2022 Newport to Bermuda race, and the St. Barths Bucket Superyacht Regatta in 2023. “When and If” and I have sailed to Cuba four times, Bermuda, Newfoundland, Gulf of St. Lawrence, and throughout the Great Lakes, which we’re doing again this summer…
Could you tell me about how you found the “When and If” or how it found you?
SS: I first saw “When and If” in 2000 while sailing the coast of Maine aboard a schooner where I worked as deckhand. I kept seeing her in the oddest of places: in 2009, I sailed into a secluded bay in the Caribbean; in 2010, she sailed into Key West harbor. A close friend bought her and hired me as her captain in 2012. We struck an agreement and she has been under my care since 2015.
The sailboat followed you for 15 years? What are the odds. And, the “When and If” is a John Alden schooner. Is that right? For those that don’t know, can you explain what a John Alden schooner is?
SS: John Alden was the premier cruising/racing yacht designer from the 1920s through the 1960s. His inspiration came from the Gloucester fishing schooners of the late 1800s and early 1900s; he pioneered scaled-down versions of those craft to design and build family cruising yachts that could be sailed with minimal crew. This was his way of preserving the heritage of the New England fishing schooner. His passion was racing and winning. John Alden’s designs have won more Newport to Bermuda races than any other yacht designer.
Did you know about the vessel’s connection to General Patton?
SS: I had barely heard the name until I met the vessel. Now, however, you’d think I got a degree on General Patton. His dream of sailing the world with his family in the late 1930s, when the world was at war and facing so many unknowns, inspires me. And his words remain: “When the war is over and if I live through it, Beatrice and I are going to sail around the world.”
And, have you connected with any of Patton’s family members about your mission to fulfill the boat’s destiny?
SS: Yes, I had the privilege of hosting Pattons from both his and his wife’s side of the family. His daughter-in-law Jo-Ann Patton sent me a letter in 2015, with her admiration for our program and sailed on board with me on four occasions before her passing in 2024 at 95 years old. Jo-Ann recounted stories of sailing on the “When and If “with George Patton Jr. We sailed with his grandkids, great-grandkids, and great-great-grandkids.
How much of the original boat remains today? What efforts have gone into its preservation?
SS: I’d say about 60%. The vessel underwent two large restorations. In the mid-1990s, a shipyard in Martha’s Vineyard, Gannon and Benjamin, made a name for itself by taking ownership of the “When and If” after she broke free from her mooring during a severe storm and crashed into the rocky shore. G&B orchestrated a grass-roots effort to rebuild the yacht. Walter Cronkite, James Taylor, and many more helped in fundraising. Four years later, the “When and If “was relaunched in impeccable condition.
Do you think General Patton would be surprised about how his boat has been preserved and used over the decades?
SS: I like to think he would be proud of all our voyages and extremely proud of all the crew who have earned their salt aboard his exceptional vessel.
So, tell us about the program. How far have you gotten? Where are you now?
SS: Making money with a boat is no easy feat. We sail daily in Key West, FL (winters) and Salem, MA (summers) doing shared charters, keeping us going between tall ships festivals, regattas, and film shoots, all while maintaining a wooden yacht.
The COVID-19 pandemic in 2020 changed our course, but we endured. The schooner remains in great shape while my two young boys, ages 4½ and 3, grow their sea legs, giving us time for improvements at an affordable pace.
Prep work for the voyage has always driven our work, but the real work has yet to begin. The watermaker, power regeneration, electronic upgrades—all that. We intend to set off in fall 2030.
How do you balance preserving the historical authenticity of the vessel while ensuring it meets modern safety standards for a world journey?
SS: We’re Coast Guard-certified, and safety is always top priority. While modern technology has made boating safer, there’s a common misconception that an old boat isn’t a safe boat. I beg to differ. We would be more likely to sail through the storm less scathed than 90% of the yachts that are built today. In general, sailing isn’t for the faint of heart, but I would say that with experienced hands at the helm, or guiding you, it’s a life-altering experience.
What is your “When and If”?
SS: When my boys are older, and if we’ve raised the funds, my family and crew will sail around the world.
Seth has been sailing the Florida Keys since the age of 13. Today, he brings guests aboard historic sailboats in a show, tell and sail experience only he could put on. One of his boats happens to be a 1939 schooner custom-made for World War II Gen. George Patton. Patton named his sailboat “When and If” in the hopes that when and if the war ended, he and his family would sail around the world. While Patton never got to see it, Seth made it his mission to keep his dream alive and build a program “to finally fulfill the ship’s destiny.”
